Newsable: Greens, ACT leaders spar over Treaty of Waitangi after rare moment of unity

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There was a rare moment of unity between Greens co-leader Marama Davidson and ACT leader David Seymour on the role of minor parties as policy innovators, but it was short-lived as the two went on to spar over Te Tiriti’s role in Aotearoa.

With just 17 weeks until the 2023 election and their two parties expected to play key roles in forming the next government, the two leaders joined Newsable hosts Imogen Wells and Emile Donovan for a special weekend edition of the podcast.

Both Davidson and Seymour agreed with Stuff’s Andrea Vance that their parties were the source of much of the innovative policies.

Davidson says: “I am proud that that is exactly what the Greens had been doing for decades now, often ahead of the game…speaking on taking action for climate change.”

Seymour says: “What puzzles me is that the older parties, who have a lot more resources than us, a lot more staff, a lot more MPs, a lot more money, don’t tend to do that.

“People want the change to be real, they’re concerned that National left to its own devices will just babysit Labour’s policies.”

The discussion was less cordial after Seymour was asked about ACT’s proposal for a referendum on the principles of the Te Tiriti o Waitangi.

In Seymour’s view, what the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975 came up with “is not consistent with the New Zealand you see today, the New Zealand you see today is a modern, multi-ethnic, liberal democratic state”.

“It’s time to have a constructive and respectful debate about how we make sense of the treaty in 2023. But it can’t be the interpretation that’s grown up over the last 50 years of kind of a two-track country, a partnership between two different types of people.”

“Many of the underlying challenges this country faces comes back to what does the treaty mean in 2023? What place does it have for the non-Māori? What relationship do citizens have with the state? Is that the same or does it vary based on your ancestry? Those questions can’t be avoided, I’m afraid.”

Davidson says Te Tiriti gives “a foundation of understanding for all people to make Aotearoa their home”.

“Tau iwi (non-Māori) absolutely centre in Te Tiriti because we have a responsibility to tautoko and maanaki (support) everyone’s identity. It is also the power of Te Tiriti, mana motuhake (self-governance) and sovereignty and independence is also essential to the big issues that we are facing.”

For the full episode, which includes the two MPs debating the Greens’ new wealth tax policy, what ACT would do to tackle poverty, and culture wars in politics, use the player above or click here.

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